tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post1607223159657719275..comments2023-08-16T04:32:23.376-07:00Comments on Bad Outcomes: Arnold King is Basically SolomonRobert H.http://www.blogger.com/profile/09454933755396275755noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-45415861127602685122012-12-10T15:20:53.094-08:002012-12-10T15:20:53.094-08:00Not asking because I disagree, just haven't th...Not asking because I disagree, just haven't thought about it before, but what are your reasons for opposing self selling?J Billingsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-69813273858938814712012-12-06T22:28:28.426-08:002012-12-06T22:28:28.426-08:00So the economist defends repugnant markets and the...So the economist defends repugnant markets and the liberal laments the oppression of the rich and powerful. As long as we all play our parts.Charlie Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02079017903923824877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-28225994335617982892012-12-06T17:11:48.513-08:002012-12-06T17:11:48.513-08:00Well barbarism and oppression encompass a lot, and...Well barbarism and oppression encompass a lot, and not defining what he specifically meant in this context was a bad idea of his. I think he's talking about why society fails. A liberal will focus on the powerful dominating the weak. A conservative will focus on the delicate nature of civilization and on how immorality and innovation can undermine institutions. So, barbarism and oppression. Going back to my hypothetical, the liberal thinks the big man is going to lord over the little man as a king and the conservative thinks he is going to kill him and burn his farm.<br /><br />Also, keep in mind that it has not always been true that most people oppose the institution of slavery, so it can't be some inherent weakness of mind that makes people dislike it. I don't think the issue is "some kinds of markets give people the willies," because in the past a lot of these markets didn't give people the willies. I think it is, "When faced with creating new kinds of markets, liberals focus on the ability for the weak to be trampled in those markets, while conservatives mistrust them because they are new and represent a break with the current, stable, civilized society." This is especially true when new kinds of things -- like organs -- are being brought into the economic world. My argument would be that a libertarian, when hearing about a new kind of market, will almost reflexively support it.<br /><br />I would add, as he did, that these aren't mutually contradictory things. The best policies preserve civilization, protect the weak, and make good economic sense. Robert H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09454933755396275755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-57004322460983711702012-12-06T05:41:03.164-08:002012-12-06T05:41:03.164-08:00Don't all sides also emphasize oppression and ...Don't all sides also emphasize oppression and barbarism? For conservatives, oppression is class warfare. For liberals, barbarism is failure of living wages or decline in middle class manufacturing jobs.<br /><br />Most (almost all?) people are opposed to selling people into slavery for the same reason they are opposed to people being allowed to sell their kidney and to people being allowed to sell gasoline at a fair market price after a disaster. The idea is repugnant. The idea is off-putting to them. I don't think repugnance is a very good argument, and I don't think its very well thought out. If you said, "you only think kidney monetary exchanges are a good idea, because you underestimate people's irrationality and overestimate the extend to which economic transactions are at arms length." I'd say, "I'll bite that bullet and concede that some irrational and regrettable decisions would get made with kidney exchanges, but there are also a lot less dead people, so perhaps its better anyway."<br /><br />[I don't find Arnold's trichotomy very useful.]Charlie Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02079017903923824877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-33090773455016785532012-12-05T22:39:04.389-08:002012-12-05T22:39:04.389-08:00I said something like this on his blog, but I gues...I said something like this on his blog, but I guess I see "men with guns will come get you" as an exaggeration all the sides engage in. Whenever people see the government as doing something illegitimate, they emphasize its coercive nature. What's to stop Bush from dragging you off to Gitmo, Obama is going to kill you with a death panel, government will shoot you if you don't pay your taxes, etc. The only difference with libertarians is that they like what the government does less, so they talk about its coercive nature more. Robert H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09454933755396275755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-45309983837375241552012-12-05T22:31:17.007-08:002012-12-05T22:31:17.007-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Charlie Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02079017903923824877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-279146381231845671.post-34875552303503789472012-12-05T22:28:53.756-08:002012-12-05T22:28:53.756-08:00As I was reading along, I was thinking, "it&#...As I was reading along, I was thinking, "it's got to be the men with guns are gonna come get you if you don't do xyz."spook. Though maybe the fact that Arnold thinks that is a valid argument somewhat makes your point.Charlie Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02079017903923824877noreply@blogger.com